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04 May 2008 @ 02:26 pm
I want to wad you up into my life!  
As an explanation, the title is a line from"Que Sera Sera", from Katamari (which is quite possibly the most awesomely cracked-out game in history. My icon is the Prince rolling up sea creatures.)

Today's discussion is "Love". I could have named this post "Symposium" like Plato's thing, but the one I chose is more awesome. So here goes:

Since I'm writing about them, I may as well start with The Iliad.

I was thinking about parallels again, and I realized that, like Alexander, Achilles fell in love with a lot of people. The first and greatest love was Patroclus (there's Hephaestion), then he has a kid with Deidama (wasn't the person with Alexander next Barsine?). Then there's Troilus (heh...I think Bagoas was directly after Barsine.) Then you have Briseis (okay, so there's a bit of a switch-around--she more resembles Stateira), and lastly the Amazon lady (I forgot her name, but I suppose you could compare her to Roxanne). If you look at this, it's the same number, with the same guy/girl ratio, and more or less in the same order with personality.

By the way, I have decided that Briseis can go on my cool-list. She was genuinely, deeply grieved when Patroclus died, even though she knew that Achilles loved him more (and yes, Achilles loved Briseis.)

Patroclus, on the other hand, never really gets serious about anyone except Achilles. Sure, Hephaestion got married, but that was more with Alexander's desire to have them related as closely as possible....although, if you think on it too hard, it means that Hephaestion and Alexander were brothers-in-law, and yet still lovers, but I try not to think about that too hard. It's like thinking about how Achilles is Patroclus' younger-cousin-step-uncle, which is just kinda weird. Neither of them had kids, but both Achilles and Alexander had one son.

Coincidence? Well, like the Lincoln-Kennedy thing, it's more a matter if you believe in destiny/reincarnation/whatever.

Another thought: How many Greek love stories ended well? There was:
Eros and Psyche
Perseus and Andromeda
Odysseus and Penelope
Pygmalion and Galatea
Zeus and Europa
Artemis and Endymion (well...sorta)
Hades and Persephone (in my favorite version--that's a rare, one, though)

Now, how many are tragedies?
Achilles and Patroclus
Achilles and Troilus
Achilles and Amazon lady
Achilles and Briseis
Hector and Andromache
Helen and Paris
Neoptolomus and Hermione
Agamemnon and Clymenestra (well...he deserved it...)
Apollo and Hyacinthus
Apollo and Daphne
Venus and Adonis
Narcissus and Echo
Pyramus and Thisbe
Orpheus and Eurydice
Ceyx and Alcyone
Alpheus and Arethusa
Medea and Jason
Medea and Aegeas
Atalanta and Hippomenes
Oedipus
Heracles and Megara
Zeus and Hera (I don't really count this as happy--they fought too much)
(There are more, I just can't think of them right now)

Are we seeing a pattern here? It's pretty depressing when you think about it.

I'm going to try to get some writing done today or tomorrow. I promise.
 
 
Current Mood: thoughtfulthoughtful
Current Music: Instrumental Just Communication - Gundam Wing (end theme)
 
 
 
See you later, instigator: Remus/Sirius3 (by wicked_visions)oudeteron on May 4th, 2008 07:39 pm (UTC)
I think it's exactly the famous take on it that Alexander and Hephaistion are like the reincarnated Achilles and Patroclus, but it comes across even better now that you've summarized both so nicely. It's almost creepy how well they correspond, but - well, it's something to wonder about. (That Amazon lady, yeah, what was she called again... Penthesilea, I believe. Or something like that.)

The relative thing doesn't bother me much, really. From what I've noticed, "cousin" has become pretty much a double-entendre for these boys after the atrocious Troy movie came out. xD

And a good point about the happy/tragic ratio. Though I've found one more myth that could be more or less counted as happy: Zeus and Ganymede? Or at least not particularly sad. (It adds to Zeus and Hera being tragic, more like.)
MissTeacakes: fucknomissteacakes on May 4th, 2008 09:36 pm (UTC)
Eh, it's not so much the younger lover-cousin-step-uncle thing that bugs me as the brother-in-law thing. Cause I have little doubt that, if they had survived, and Hephaestion had a daughter, Alexander would have wanted her and Alexander IV married, with a whole "mix the blood, and our descendants will rule forever~" thing. And when you think about it, it starts to get somewhat strange. The kids would hear "Your grandfathers were lovers till the end of their days!", and they would know about them being almost-brothers....and yeah...

Although, I must say I read a fic where Olympias says "We must curse Hephaestion's mother for giving birth to a boy. If only he were born as a girl, what beautiful, Macedonian grandchildren I would have!" It made me laugh--and then imagined it >.
See you later, instigator: Remus/Sirius1 (by wild_huntress)oudeteron on May 5th, 2008 09:28 pm (UTC)
Okay... if you put it that way, then it is rather creepy. The funny part is that it may have been exactly how Alexander and Hephaistion meant it to turn out! Ah well, I guess it shows how family standards have changed since antiquity or something. I recall that some practices involved outright incest - like those occasionally inbreeding Egyptian dynasties. Rather puts things in perspective...

Heh, can I honestly say I'd put it past Olympias to complain like this? Seriously, I don't even want to know. xD